Ganska likt debatten har pa utsidan...
Ett axplock av kommentarer i samband med traden jag lanka till i inlagg 159
Steve House:
"Nice discussion people! My interest here isn't to be right, or enforce my own opinion on others, but rather to help facilitate this discussion.
Three things stand out to me.
A) Breathing supplemental Oxygen is is a clear and obvious performance enhancer, and by this definition it's doping.
B) In my opinion, safety is not a valid reason to use supplemental oxygen. Climbing big mountains is SUPPOSED to be dangerous people! No risk, no adventure. You want to be safe? Go climb a smaller mountain within your personal abilities.
C) You want to solve all the enviro problems with 8,000-meter peaks? If you took away the bottled oxygen option, you remove almost all of the people, and then the trash, fixed ropes, and human waste will also disappear (in time).
As Willie said, Peace out."
Freddie Wilkinson:
"Using oxygen is doping" - Provocative, but not really logical. The only ethical considerations are that oxygen bottles need to be carried down or they become trash, and then the oxygen users making false claims to the public about the importance of their ascents. If you don't leave any trash and you don't lie about what you did, it's a debate about style, not ethics. There's a difference.
David Falt:
"@Freddie. True Its about style. But is that in conflict with saying that O2 is doping? Is this not a question related to mainstream media and the lack of insight to what we climbers refer to as different style? Lack of public scrutiny gives a lot of pretenders leaway for "iffy" reporting of what has been achieved and how it was done. One issue is what is a valid non O2 ascent? Its not uncommon for "non" O2 ascents to being acompanied by a Sherpa with O2. Is instant access to O2 on an no o2 ascent a valid claim?"
Willie Benegas(10 ggr pa Everest):
"Or for that matter the ropes they fix, and that includes K2 Anapurna, Kanche, and the list is long, if someone summit with or with out is a personal choice, and that should not make a climber lest than others, Ales hannold for soloing half Dome, or someone who needed to use ropes and equipment for, the question he cheat because that ?. Is all the same. I do agree with Freddie the biggest issue is the environmental part, but lest sincere as well K2 and any other 8000 peak is cover with miles of fix ropes, tents, solid waste, epi gas and that is for all levels of climbers from the hardcore that at the end of the rappels they packs weight two pounds, and is not because we eat allot. still yes we have a problem with empty bottles laying on the mountain, and we are working on stopping that In the last 12 years i have experience a sad degradation of the state of the Himalayas and the Karakorum, if we need to discuss about something that has value to our society, is on how we could stop our destructive use of this majestic ranges, Commercial or independent is not different, I'm truly open to discussions and ideas for solutions, We have implemented a system of cash for trash, that it has been working well on Everest, one kilo one dollar, Sherpas so far collected 6 tons of rubbish, in the two of years, severe melting of the glacier has cleared rubbish all the way from the Hillary expedition. included a Helicopter that has crashed at CI on the seventy's
I do apologias if I sound to personal, since i use O2 and i will like to think that I'm not a lest climber because that." peace to all Willie.
Michael Shannon:
"Mays Actually the REAL argument solely centers around those who actually CLIMB a mountain using ONLY their own natural ability, and those who claim a summit made possible ONLY through the use of supplemental O2? The TRUE sprite of mountaineering (and its official groups) should only recognize those who truly conquer a 8000 m peak through ONLY natural ability...PERIOD.
If a individual wants to SAY they have been to a 8000m summit, fine, let them claim away, but as a sport, we should ONLY recognize those who are truly worthy of this achievement!"
Ett axplock av kommentarer i samband med traden jag lanka till i inlagg 159
Steve House:
"Nice discussion people! My interest here isn't to be right, or enforce my own opinion on others, but rather to help facilitate this discussion.
Three things stand out to me.
A) Breathing supplemental Oxygen is is a clear and obvious performance enhancer, and by this definition it's doping.
B) In my opinion, safety is not a valid reason to use supplemental oxygen. Climbing big mountains is SUPPOSED to be dangerous people! No risk, no adventure. You want to be safe? Go climb a smaller mountain within your personal abilities.
C) You want to solve all the enviro problems with 8,000-meter peaks? If you took away the bottled oxygen option, you remove almost all of the people, and then the trash, fixed ropes, and human waste will also disappear (in time).
As Willie said, Peace out."
Freddie Wilkinson:
"Using oxygen is doping" - Provocative, but not really logical. The only ethical considerations are that oxygen bottles need to be carried down or they become trash, and then the oxygen users making false claims to the public about the importance of their ascents. If you don't leave any trash and you don't lie about what you did, it's a debate about style, not ethics. There's a difference.
David Falt:
"@Freddie. True Its about style. But is that in conflict with saying that O2 is doping? Is this not a question related to mainstream media and the lack of insight to what we climbers refer to as different style? Lack of public scrutiny gives a lot of pretenders leaway for "iffy" reporting of what has been achieved and how it was done. One issue is what is a valid non O2 ascent? Its not uncommon for "non" O2 ascents to being acompanied by a Sherpa with O2. Is instant access to O2 on an no o2 ascent a valid claim?"
Willie Benegas(10 ggr pa Everest):
"Or for that matter the ropes they fix, and that includes K2 Anapurna, Kanche, and the list is long, if someone summit with or with out is a personal choice, and that should not make a climber lest than others, Ales hannold for soloing half Dome, or someone who needed to use ropes and equipment for, the question he cheat because that ?. Is all the same. I do agree with Freddie the biggest issue is the environmental part, but lest sincere as well K2 and any other 8000 peak is cover with miles of fix ropes, tents, solid waste, epi gas and that is for all levels of climbers from the hardcore that at the end of the rappels they packs weight two pounds, and is not because we eat allot. still yes we have a problem with empty bottles laying on the mountain, and we are working on stopping that In the last 12 years i have experience a sad degradation of the state of the Himalayas and the Karakorum, if we need to discuss about something that has value to our society, is on how we could stop our destructive use of this majestic ranges, Commercial or independent is not different, I'm truly open to discussions and ideas for solutions, We have implemented a system of cash for trash, that it has been working well on Everest, one kilo one dollar, Sherpas so far collected 6 tons of rubbish, in the two of years, severe melting of the glacier has cleared rubbish all the way from the Hillary expedition. included a Helicopter that has crashed at CI on the seventy's
I do apologias if I sound to personal, since i use O2 and i will like to think that I'm not a lest climber because that." peace to all Willie.
Michael Shannon:
"Mays Actually the REAL argument solely centers around those who actually CLIMB a mountain using ONLY their own natural ability, and those who claim a summit made possible ONLY through the use of supplemental O2? The TRUE sprite of mountaineering (and its official groups) should only recognize those who truly conquer a 8000 m peak through ONLY natural ability...PERIOD.
If a individual wants to SAY they have been to a 8000m summit, fine, let them claim away, but as a sport, we should ONLY recognize those who are truly worthy of this achievement!"
