Kärnis = Black Ice (English)

The discussion about ice words on https://dev.utsidan.se/forum/threads/53947/ is interesting.

I am trying to build my own ice vocabulary in English, which is
difficult, since we lack good words for ice types. Most ice words
in English are for glaciers and sea-ice, which are not always correct
for skating ice.

The 2 skating ice-word English dictionaries that I know about are:

• href=http://www.sssk.se/english/dictionary.htm
• http://www.llk.se/english/index.htm

What is the meaning of Kärn in Kärnis ?
Maybe nuclear-ice? "As strong and hard as the nucleus of an atom"
But the word was probably used before anyone knew that the atom has
a nucleus.

I have also read about ice "nucleation sites", where new
ice crystals first start to form.

Or maybe it means the "kärna" (core) of ice that ice-researchers bore
out to examine the ice layer structure, as in Fransson's Ishandbok:
http://www.luth.se/depts/lib/coldtech/ct94-1.html#RTFToC28 In
section Istype

Ett istäcke undersöks lättast genom att
borra ut en kärna genom hela tjockleken.

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The Norwegians call it Stålis,
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stålis. I can understand
"Ice as strong as steel".

In English the common term is Black ice which causes difficulties:

• it is not really black, but transparent with a light blue tint.
• most people use
  the term black ice for the invisible layer of thin ice
  on black roads.
• the term black ice is also used for rotten, spring ice
  (våris), which
  is also dark coloured, but is NOT good for skating

Maybe there is a better term: "clear ice" ? "steel ice" ? "blue ice" ?

MVH David Dermott, Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada
(weather now: 10 cm of new wet snow, winds 20-30 m/sec, not good skating)

Proposal

What about "kernel ice"?

Karin Hedén

Hard question

As my first language is swedish I would hesitate to tell whats most appropiate.

Black ice or clear lake ice?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_ice_(lakes)

Thure

Kärnis = Black Ice

Black ice is the common English term for “kärnis” in scientific literature regarding lake and rive ice, sometimes also for sea and brackish ice. Snow ice is the common term for “stöpis” and “snöis”. White ice is also commonly used as a synonym for snow ice. I got the impression that these terms also are commonly used by people that use natural ice for sailing and fishing etc.

One reference is US Army Ice Engineering Manual
http://140.194.76.129/publications/eng-manuals/em1110-2-1612/

Kärnis used to be defined as ice growing downwards at the bottom of an ice cover by freezing of water at the water-ice interface. As opposite to snow ice that is formed above the former ice cover, and frazil ice that is formed by frazil floating to the surface.

I do not know the origin of the Swedish word kärnis. My guess is that it comes from “kärna” (core) in the sense that it usually can be found beneath the snow ice (“in the core of the ice”). But that is only my guess.

Kärnis

pby sa:

I do not know the origin of the Swedish word kärnis.

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Nationalencyklopedins ordbok säger följande:

Kärnis - fast, tät och klar is
Hist: sedan 1749


And the web dictionary http://tyda.se translates kärnis to solid ice

thureb sa:

Black ice or clear lake ice?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_ice_(lakes)
Thure

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Sorry, I should have mentioned that I just started
on the English wiki article, to correspond
to the Swedish, Bokmål and Nynorsk wikis.
I was looking for for references to cite.

pby sa:

Black ice is the common English term for kärnis in
scientific literature regarding lake and rive ice, sometimes also for
sea and brackish ice. Snow ice is the common term for stöpis and snöis.
White ice is also commonly used as a synonym for snow ice. I got the
impression that these terms also are commonly used by people that use
natural ice for sailing and fishing etc.

One reference is US Army Ice Engineering Manual
http://140.194.76.129/publications/eng-manuals/em1110-2-1612/

Klicka för att se resterande...

Thanks Johan, for that link. I have seen that Manual before but the
link I have to it is "dead".
I also found this list
"IAHR Multilingual Ice Terminology, Published by the Research Centre for Water Resources Budapest, 1980"
http://www.mvp-wc.usace.army.mil/ice/iahr_ice_terminology.html

pausch sa:

Nationalencyklopedins ordbok säger följande:
Kärnis - fast, tät och klar is
Hist: sedan 1749

Klicka för att se resterande...

pby sa:

I do not know the origin of the Swedish word kärnis.
My guess is that it comes from kärna (core) in the sense that it usually
can be found beneath the snow ice (in the core of the ice). But that is
only my guess.

Klicka för att se resterande...

Karin H. sa:

What about "kernel ice"?
Karin Hedén

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Thanks , since the name was in use since 1749, then it can not be a metaphor
to atomic nucleus. So the guess about the hard core or kernel (as in a cherry
or peach) seems right.
But I guess "Black Ice" is the best
term to use since it seems to be an accepted term in several fields.

Tack Thure, Johan, Karin and Paul

David Dermott

Another guess at the origins

I associate "kärn" in kärnis to kärnved (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kärnved) which in some trees is marked by its hardness. And it wouldn't surprise me if "kärnfrisk" shared the same origin.

David - I have used the term "core ice" when describing kärnis and it seems to get the message across although perhaps terminologically incorrect it does the job.

polkovodets sa:

I associate "kärn" in kärnis to kärnved (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kärnved) which in some trees is marked by its hardness. And it wouldn't surprise me if "kärnfrisk" shared the same origin.

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That is heartwood in English, and that is a very probable
source of the term kärnis. Treecutters probably cut blocks ice
with saws and noticed the layering of ice and compared
it to the layers of wood in the tree "soft wood on the surface and
hard wood underneath" The "kärnis" would be the best ice
for ice blocks.

Tusen tack
(unconfirmed reports say there is hard, smooth ice in Halifax,
so I'm going there now before it snow tomorrow "Carpe Diem Glacielum"
David Dermott

If you search for "kärnis" in SAOB, you'll see that there's many other Swedish words that start with "kärn-"

http://g3.spraakdata.gu.se/saob/